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 Post subject: Match Start Times - Important Message from the BoD
PostPosted: December 29th, 2009, 2:32 pm 
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This is a new post about MMDL Match Start Times. The previous discussion is located here.

Feel free to post your feedback below.

The following was provided as a handout in the recent Spring 2010 Season Announcement Mailing. See below to download a .pdf of the original handout.

MATCH START TIMES MUST BE TAKEN MORE SERIOUSLY

The MMDL Board of Directors will be taking specific actions to curb the proliferation of late starting matches. We remind all captains that it is their responsibility to make sure matches start on time and to communicate with their opposing captain when late arrivals are unavoidable. Please read through the following guidelines regarding match start time.

Match start time is 7:30pm! First darts MUST be thrown by 8:00pm
On average, matches should be completed by 11:00pm

BEGINNING IN SPRING 2010

Match start times will need to be recorded in the space provided on a new match report and initialed by both the home and away team captains. NO points will be deducted for late starts unless a team issues a protest to their area director; for one season this information will be used for the BoD to measure and assess start times across the league. If deemed necessary, the match start time on the report will be used to issue point penalties in subsequent seasons.

STRICTER RULES AND POINT PENALTIES CAN BE AVOIDED WITH THE FOLLOWING BEHAVIOUR

1. Encourage your team to arrive at the match for 7:30 start times. The first darts of the match MUST be thrown by 8:00pm. Lax attitudes towards start time must be changed.

2. Captains of HOME teams - it is unacceptable for away teams to be fully present and ready to begin before your team. Make the effort to communicate with the visiting team as soon as they arrive to coordinate the start of the match.

3. Do not delay filling out your rosters at the beginning of the night. Home team captains should be ready to supply the visiting team with the match report shortly after they arrive and immediately in cases where they arrive later than 7:30.

4. Captains of AWAY teams - it is unacceptable for your team to arrive later than 7:30 without your placing a phone call to the home team captain to inform them of your late arrival.

5. Keep matches flowing. When a game is over, the next set of players should be ready to warm up and begin live darts. Downtime between games should be minimized to prevent a late night.

6. ALL CAPTAINS must be flexible for teams who make the effort to call ahead and inform you of their late arrival. You are advised to start matches on time and move individual games to later in the night to accommodate late arriving players. Every team faces this situation occasionally, so we must all be willing to help each other out.

The above are GUIDELINES for you to follow. MMDL recognizes that many people have work schedules and travel issues that delay match start times. However, too many people are taking advantage of other captains, not communicating properly with opposing teams, and are not respectful of starting within a reasonable time frame.

We understand there may be times and circumstances when matches must start later than 8pm, but it is your responsibility to avoid this as much as possible. Leniency will be afforded to teams who proactively manage this and communicate with the opposing team. Strictness and point deductions may be given for teams who are disrespectful and do not follow the above guidelines.

The MMDL DOES NOT WANT to have to police this further.
Your cooperation will ensure that more severe measures are not implemented.


Attachments:
MMDL-SPR10-StartTimes.pdf [64.03 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Match Start Times - Important Message from the BoD
PostPosted: December 29th, 2009, 3:19 pm 
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First dart thrown by 8PM & finish by 11. Check and Check. Not a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Match Start Times - Important Message from the BoD
PostPosted: December 29th, 2009, 7:12 pm 
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I think it would be a good idea formulate a time table to request a point deduction now before it's an issue. example: Point deduction for late start must be logged via email to A.D. within 48 hrs of match completion. Might as well devise an appeal process while your at it.

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 Post subject: Re: Match Start Times - Important Message from the BoD
PostPosted: December 30th, 2009, 1:49 am 
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I agree. Any team that requests a point deduction needs to be B-Slapped for even ASKING for stupid request WITHIN 48 HOURS! LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Match Start Times - Important Message from the BoD
PostPosted: December 31st, 2009, 12:15 am 
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6. ALL CAPTAINS must be flexible for teams who make the effort to call ahead and inform you of their late arrival. You are advised to start matches on time and move individual games to later in the night to accommodate late arriving players. Every team faces this situation occasionally, so we must all be willing to help each other out.

Ummm ... why? Why should I have to rearrange the match order in order to accommodate another team that can't get their players there on time? If your players for the first match aren't there, don't play them in the first match. Don't write your line-up for players that aren't going to be there on time. I sometimes INTENTIONALLY play people in back to back games, such as second 601 and first cricket or 3rd cricket and first 301. Why should I have to switch this up because the other team can't get there on time?

My team has started home games ... including in the playoffs ... before my slowpoke players have arrived. If they walk in in mid-match (second 601), they step in when it is their turn. I feel changing the standard order of games messes up the flow even more than playing a game short-handed.


4. Captains of AWAY teams - it is unacceptable for your team to arrive later than 7:30 without your placing a phone call to the home team captain to inform them of your late arrival.

If some of us are sitting there at a bar 20+ miles from home, and the players who can't even leave our home neighborhood until 7:00pm aren't there by 7:30pm, am I expected to call the opposing captain, who may not even be there yet? This makes sense to me if the ENTIRE team is running late, but what if most of us are present and accounted for? Or on the flip side, what if the away team happens to be there ridiculously early? Does that count against the home team because they aren't there as early?

5. Keep matches flowing. When a game is over, the next set of players should be ready to warm up and begin live darts. Downtime between games should be minimized to prevent a late night.

Teach players that they can't throw a zillion darts between each and every game. Even if they are using a second board (right next to the game board and definitely in the way of playing the match). Even if it is not their turn up in the next game. We had an opponent in the recent playoffs who threw AT LEAST 10 turns of darts between EACH game whether he was up next or not. I called him on it and he told me there was no such rule that there are only 4 turns (12 darts) allowed. I offered to show him the rule and he declined. Talk about slowing down the match!

I realize I am sounding grumpy and nitpicky, but a lot of this is just common sense, isn't it? OK, we need to start matches on time. I get it. I feel a lot of this is making it even more difficult for those of us who DO start on time about 95% of the time. If we write start times on the match reports, how will there be any way to know if it started closer to 8:00pm because of the home team or the away team?


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 Post subject: Re: Match Start Times - Important Message from the BoD
PostPosted: December 31st, 2009, 2:05 pm 
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5. Keep matches flowing. When a game is over, the next set of players should be ready to warm up and begin live darts. Downtime between games should be minimized to prevent a late night.

[color=#008000]Teach players that they can't throw a zillion darts between each and every game. Even if they are using a second board (right next to the game board and definitely in the way of playing the match). Even if it is not their turn up in the next game. We had an opponent in the recent playoffs who threw AT LEAST 10 turns of darts between EACH game whether he was up next or not. I called him on it and he told me there was no such rule that there are only 4 turns (12 darts) allowed. I offered to show him the rule and he declined. Talk about slowing down the match!

Don't forget to teach players who are in the next match to go have a cigarette BEFORE there up. Nothing worse than hearing "Hay Johnny your up""Oh, i need to grab a quick smoke" This is BS. I've seen this a million times!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: Match Start Times - Important Message from the BoD
PostPosted: January 3rd, 2010, 1:59 am 
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Agreed with you Metal. I am a smoker and I'm pretty diligent about checking where I am in the match and getting that last smoke/bar run/bathroom break in when the game right before mine is just beginning. Only time I really violated that one was when a guy on our team wasn't there and I got written into the game while I was outside on the phone..but I ran right in, threw 6 darts, and was ready.

Froggie, what the "being flexible" part means is that if a team is good enough to call ahead and tries to make it up as best they can, work with them as best you can. That said, certainly don't hurt your team if it comes to that point either. In your example of most but not all of your team being there by 7:30 I would say just do what you do..play the match as you can and let your late person jump in midway like you said.

Put it this way..my team was late once..called the bar and asked for the capt at 7:40, explained we were lost, and the capt helped us find the bar. We walked in at 8pm. My captain took the other captain aside, pointed out 3 of us, and said "that's the first 601. They're ready when your 3 are" just so we didn't waste any more of their time. He also had another player buy the 3 players on our team their drinks right then..and sat with the other capt and filled out the rest of the lineup right then. Bottom line is our first dart was thrown at 8:05..not terrible and certainly a case of the late team (us) making every effort to start fast once we arrived.

Some years ago, we had to play a team about 40 minutes from our bar. We arrived there at 7:35 and waited till 8:05 before the team got to their own bar.."well we figured you would be late so we could take our time"..they weren't ready to play till 8:20. They arrived at our bar a few weeks later 8:20 and were given the report promptly..they proceeded to watch the Sox game, drink a round, and then decide to warm up. First dart wasn't in the air till 8:45.

Now given those 2 situations, I think although yes both are "late starts", it is arguable that very little is similar after that.


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 Post subject: Re: Match Start Times - Important Message from the BoD
PostPosted: January 3rd, 2010, 2:08 am 
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Forgot one thing. While yes you are encouraged to be flexible (IE move games around for instance), I for one would not FORCE a team to do that either.

Technically you are not obligated to play the match in any order other than that which is on the match report. Is it a big deal to play one game out of order? Usually not. Do you have to? Nope. That said, when I've done such things in the past I've sometimes needed the same consideration in return down the road and all but 1 time received it.


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 Post subject: Re: Match Start Times - Important Message from the BoD
PostPosted: January 3rd, 2010, 12:48 pm 
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Sometimes the smoker everyone is waiting for has kept score the previous match and wasn't able to duck outside until it was over. I am a former smoker, so I understand the need/want/urge to have a smoke, but couldn't it wait? Or could it at least be quick?

Most of the matches I play start before 8pm. Most of them move along at a reasonable flow and are done at a reasonable hour. Sometimes it just doesn't happen. There is always that one team that shows up late, whether it is home or away. There is always that one team where everybody is outside for a smoke, whether you are waiting for players or even a scorekeeper. There is always that one team/player that doesn't understand about only throwing a limited number of darts for warm-ups between games. There is always that one match that goes until after midnight because every cricket game was a marathon and every 301 went to 3 likewise marathon matches when everyone had trouble doubling. And those are always the matches when you are farthest from home, right?

I understand that stricter guidelines are being placed in an attempt to curb some of the problems. Just don't punish the teams, and I speak for plenty besides my own I'm sure, that try to do everything right.


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 Post subject: Re: Match Start Times - Important Message from the BoD
PostPosted: January 3rd, 2010, 3:06 pm 
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Sure it can Froggie..if I am that guy (and occasionally I am) 2 minutes tops for me, plus I forgo practice darts if the other players are ready when I return.

While most of those things are "understood" such as playing out of order for instance, we are only trying to remind people that there are options if they wish. That and just reminding everyone that keeping things moving is something we can all influence, either good or bad, by our actions.


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 Post subject: Re: Match Start Times - Important Message from the BoD
PostPosted: February 1st, 2010, 6:24 pm 
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How many people from the team is considered ready to start? 2? 3? 6? when the captain or co-captain shows with at least 2 others? I ask because I play with and against some very nit-picky players, and I would like to have some idea of what "ready to start" means.


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 Post subject: Re: Match Start Times - Important Message from the BoD
PostPosted: February 1st, 2010, 9:21 pm 
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3 is enough to start a match, and anyone that is not there but shows in the middle of a short handed match, can jump in, without practicing.

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 Post subject: Re: Match Start Times - Important Message from the BoD
PostPosted: February 4th, 2010, 12:16 pm 
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Hello everyone,
last year I played in the B division--I usually play Super A but could not find a team. I could not believe the start times of some of our games..I remember more than a couple of occassions that we started AFTER 8:30.. This was totally unacceptable for both teams to start so late. Needless to say, we always finished late which was a pain in the a$$. For those of you who know me (Tim Hairston), I am sometimes late but I ask my captain to put me in later games. Teams have skipped games and played games out of order to accomodate late players but this will not correct the problem of those who are chronically late..I propose that the games must start on time and be played in the correct order..If the late person is in the 601 and is not there yet then the team must play short handed (this is why teams have 9 players on their rosters). The late players should be placed down in the order to make sure they are present to play.. This will make those late players do a better job on getting there on time..If the team is late for every game, then points must be taken away from them and the AD must get involved.. Once teams understand that there are consequences, then they will adhere to the rules of starting on time (some times those points being deducted can make the difference of making the playoffs)..The changes must come from all teams who want to enjoy darts and get home at a reasonable time so they can make it to work the next day..I have never heard complaints froms teams who have finished early--I have heard complaints from people finishing late..I believe that if teams adhere to these guidelines as I mentioned, we all can have a better season of darts :D


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 Post subject: Re: Match Start Times - Important Message from the BoD
PostPosted: February 6th, 2010, 8:30 pm 
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Falcon, if a player isn't there say for their 601 and another player is on the bench (hasn't played either 601) the team has the option to substitute. That's another option. On one hand yeah it sux for the late guy finding out he got scratched out of a game, but I figure if he was there on time he would have been playing!


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 Post subject: Re: Match Start Times - Important Message from the BoD
PostPosted: February 8th, 2010, 12:00 am 
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I will say, using all the time saving techniques does save a bit of time. I was late this past week, I got out of work late and grabbed dinner on the road and brought it with me to darts. I got there a little after 7:30pm. It took me a few minutes to get out the match report and fill it out. I had 8 players show up so fitting in everyone took a few moments to figure out, plus my teammates and the other team players saying hi to me while I was trying to write. Needless to say I messed it up, put our team on the visitor side. So I started over writing on a new sheet. By the time we got started it was around 7:50pm. No one went for smokes or bathroom breaks just as their game came up, no one took more than a couple warm up throws, and everyone kept things moving along. We ended the night at 10:30pm. So even with me being late on the first night we were out at a reasonable hour. It can be done folks, just takes being aware of it and cooperating with each other. :) And the patience and understanding of an opposing captain not getting upset for me being late. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Match Start Times - Important Message from the BoD
PostPosted: February 10th, 2010, 12:10 pm 
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Ok so last night I was going to Elks in Maynard and got hung up in traffic in Framingham due to a pedestrian getting hit. I went to call the bar there to let them know I would be about 5-10 minutes late. As it was I was only 5 minutes even though I was about ten minutes sitting on Edgell Rd. I called the number and got some poor guy at his home in some other town. Seems the phone number on the league schedule was wrong. I would advise team captains to always double check their own home bar's info on the schedule and to possibly put down their cell phone instead of a home land line phone. Good thing I wasn't lost and calling for directions. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Match Start Times - Important Message from the BoD
PostPosted: February 10th, 2010, 12:27 pm 
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Make sure you alert your area director about the wrong phone # so we can put a corrected schedule up on the website.

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 Post subject: Re: Match Start Times - Important Message from the BoD
PostPosted: February 11th, 2010, 1:26 pm 
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GreggT wrote:
Make sure you alert your area director about the wrong phone # so we can put a corrected schedule up on the website.



And thank you for being an active member of this forum and sharing your experience, insight and suggestions!

I'm sure I'm just saying what Gregg was thinking.... :?

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