Minute Man Dart League Forums

HOW LATE DO YOU PLAY? - The Board of Directors is taking a serious look at match start times across the league. It is no secret that most matches do not start by 7:30 according to the rules, and are not underway by 8pm either. Stronger enforcement and point penalties are being considered as a way to keep matches from running too late and to curtail increasingly late arrivals by visiting teams. If you have comments, questions or input on this matter, please post here.

as i have attempted to say... i am in favor of starting earlier... even if the "penalty" time is anything after 745... or 730...
but i am not a fan of it if it leads to inequities... and i just dont know how it will be policed.

why cant we all just show up ontime?

Well from what I've read on SEWA the board has already voted unanimously to change the rule to a new start time of 7:00 for spring 2010. So my suggestion is to enforce the 2 point penalty to whom ever the late team is and not change the rule. This has been going on forever in this league because no one is enforcing the rules as they are written.

I do not think the start time should change to 7:00 because of people that work later and or have to travel A good distance for work or match play. It would make it very hard to get there on time.

If it ain't broke, why fix it? Haven't heard one single complaint about match length except from some select Super A's & the problem there seems to be too much darts. Switching times will accomplish nothing. If people aren't starting by 8PM, what makes you think they're gonna start by 7:30 or 7? There's currently ALREADY a "late start" penalty rule, that is pretty much ignored. Switching the TIME doesn't mean that the rule will all of a sudden be enforced. All it will do is create animosity towards any team that tries to call out the penalty. I can see it now. The second that rule gets used, the team that it got used on will then want to enact some sort of revenge and if the other team shows up 1 minute late for the next match, then it will be thrown back in their face. And are exceptions made for weather? Traffic conditions? Where do you draw the line? The whole late start penalty in itself is bush-league. Sure, blatent disregard for the rule, ala starting an HOUR or more late needs to be dealt with, but as long as games are underway by 8:15, that should be enough time to finish your matches. If you are taking more than 3 hours to play 11 matches of darts, then there is other things going on like too much time between matches, people on smoke breaks, too much warm-up darts, or you just plain suck at darts. We get our matches done in around 2 hours. Granted we're a higher level team and matches don't typically last very long, but we've played for almost 20 years in every division going back to the G division in 1991, and we've never taken more than 3 hours to get a match done. Bottom line ius 7:00 is just way too early for darts. People who work typically aren't even getting HOME until 6 or 6:30. Give them a chance to eat, see there family, relax for a second, or whatever. A lot of people are at least 20 minutes away from their home bar, never mind the away bar. If you are going to make the start time 7:00 then you should also ensure that the away matches are all within 20 or 30 minutes of the home bar. Now if that means A teams are going to have to play D teams then so be it. You play whoever is closest to you so that you can get done on time.

I agree with everything that you said Eyes. hit the nail right on the head.
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I have no problem as long as the matches start around 8ish. The times I have a problem is when we're at a bar at 7:30 and the HOME TEAM shows up at 8:20 - already half in the bag from drinking at another bar - then wants to throw 20 minutes of practice, spends 20 minutes argueing amongst themselves about the lineup, then wants to sub someone in the 1st cricket because "so and so has to leave early"...then we have problems....

eyes... there is no such thing as "too much darts" ... so that is not the problem.

problem is that the night is "supposed" to start at 730 (yes it has been this way for the past 20 years!) but everyone goes by 8pm since that is when the penalties are supposed to be assesed for tardiness. all the BOD is doing is attempting to fix the tardiness times.

like the old and wise kirby has said we all make it to our other sports on time so why not darts?

I don't know why everyone is in such a rush to get home by 9:30. Good teams can get their matches done in 2 hours. Bad teams should be able to complete 11 matches within 3 hours. If it takes more than that you should consider quitting darts altogether cause you totally suck at darts. 7:30 is just too early for most working people to get to darts ESPECIALLY when their schedule has them playing in places that are 40 to 50 minutes away. My guys typically don't get home from work until 6:30 or so. They also like to sometimes shower up or get something to eat before heading on out. I could probably be able to get them to a home game around 7:30, but i'd never be able to get them to a place like Rockland or Hull, or Manomet by that time. 8PM starts are totally fine. Those who want to get home early play the early matches, those who don't mind being at a bar past 9:30PM play the late matches. Either way, all matches should be totally completed by 11PM. Switching times will not get the games started any faster, it will just mean that more teams will run the risk of being penalized. That, in turn, will lead to animocity and anger amongst teams. Most teams will disregard the 7:30 start time & start when they have enough players to play (which typically is right around 8PM), but every once in a while you'll run into some team that wants to use the normally unused rule and hit you with a penalty just cause they are looking to gain ground in the standings & that's the only way that they can do it. That being said, how does the penalty actually work anyway? Do you play all 11 matches then penalize the late team 2, or does the 2 points come right off the top and you not play 601's and go right into crickets? If it's the former, you could conceivably have teams getting negative points. If it's the latter, you'll have teams using the rule just to earn themselves free wins.

Who are all the people complaining that they finish to late? I haven't seen or heard of this being a problem from anyone. With the travel situation i don't see how this is reasonable.

Rob, What are these other sports that you speak of? I played League SINGLES 9 ball for years the start time was 7:00, but our travel was about a 10 min window. Even then we could only get a couple guys there to start the night others would straggle in later.

I don't think changing the start time will solve anything but it will create more problems.I'd leave it the way it is and start enforcing the fact you have to be underway by 8 or the late team will get a penalty imo

i played league softball... baseball... basketball...
everyone was always early and it always started on time.
i can not speak personally for other "organized" sports... but i am sure they are all generally on time. why is it that "bar" sports think it is ok to push the start times back? what about those of us that get up at 530am for work on wednesday? while i am young i dont mind staying out till 1 and getting up the next day but i am sure that will get old as i do...

It isn't just about how late you play. It is really IMHO about the start time. No one metioned the part in the rules that 7:30 SHARP!!!!! The majority of a team should be at any match BEFORE 7:30pm. It says the match must be under way by 8pm. Not first darts at 8pm.
Also please consider the reasons you haven't heard these complaints or the whining. There is a large majority of the MMDL that aren't as involved as we all are. But they still complain,not here, but to us the ADs and we bring these to the table at our monthly meetings. Everyone here on the forums or Sewa, for lack of a better word , care more about this sport than the rest. And it is extremely difficult policing the tardiness. I mean there is that Weds. afternoon phone call I get ."That the away team was here at 8:05.I want them deducted the 2 pts the rules say, which means we lost 7 to 4 that makes us win 6 to 5 ..."
To me its about trying to break alot of teams' bad habits. It isn't about punishing those who care or those who really know the rules. The Tues. Night Renegades , the it's just darts, the ones still tossing a coin , its about them.

The entire match is played and if a penalty is enforced, the penalized team loses 2 points off of their total score for the night. Not sure if it comes off total season score if the team doesn't win 2 games honestly. The 2 points just disappear, they are NOT awarded to the "wronged" team.

Eyes, stating that a team should finish their match in 3 hours regardless is very shortsighted IMO. I play on a decent B team and we have played past 11 more than once this season. Neither time were we wasting 10 minutes between games or starting late either. I would be surprised if more than half the teams on the South haven't run past 11 at least once this season.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong...but wasn't the match starting time rule changed to say "STARTING TIME for the match is between 7:30pm and 8:00pm"? So there's nothing about it starting at 7:30 sharp like it used to say?

My own opinion is that the current starting time is fine. An earlier time of 7 pm wouldn't work for me. Aside from an occasional issue with weather/travel, our matches are underway by 8. I have players on my team that need to be up early for work so I schedule them to play earlier so they can leave if things run a little late.

If there are some teams that are regularly showing up late or otherwise causing the match to start late, why change things for all the other teams in the league instead of focusing on those repeat offenders?

Point is, there is ALREADY a rule that penalizes teams for starting late if teams really wanted to use it. Changing the time will not fix anything, it will just cause more teams to break the rule since a 7PM start, mandatory by 7:30 is an unreasonable expectation for most working people. I have talked to a ton of people so far about this rule. First off, almost NO ONE knows that this new rule has passed, secondly the very first thing people say is "we can barely get enough people here for 8, there's no way we can get them here by 7:30", and finally, it always comes down to, well, we'll just keep it the same as it is, who's really going to complain. As long as you get the other teams in your division to agree, starting at 8, should not be a problem.

You are full of shit-you haven't talked to a "ton" of people about the issue at all.Please save all the hyperbole for your own team.I have personally spoken with over 40 people about this issue,ranging from Super A down to my daughter's team in D.I would not call that a "ton" of people seeing as the number of members is inthe thousands.Most of the 40 had no idea what I was talking about-so the communication issue is still a formidable one.People are just not getting the word.This is a Captain problem.They do not inform their teamates about the goings on in the league.Most league members do not go online,check their e-mails or get flyers.They are not getting the info.So they get their info from blowhards like me and Eyes.Now our info is going to be slanted one way or the other,depending on which way we fall on an issue.Eyes and others who are crying about starting by 7:30pm-that is the rule and always has been,now it just gets enforced-grow up.

Being a captain of a team for the last five years or so, I will say my team knows that start time is 7:30pm and that 8pm is way way too late. We have only ever started after 8pm because of a snow storm. The other team was traveling to us and we waited until they had enough to start and played around games until their other players arrived. That latter brings me to a point I wanted to make that no one has mentioned and that was mentioned in the captains meetings, or at least in Central. If the time that your match is starting is an issue, and if you both have three players there, you have enough to start the night!! You can play 5 games with just three players (601, cricket, 301, 301, 301). That should be enough games to fill in the gap until those that arrive after 8pm get there. If those players complain about playing late (because their games have been played around), or that you put out a different or weak lineup, tell them to get there on time and they won't have to play late or play in a team game with a shooter they wouldn't usually play with!! If the team that is late will not get underway and captain refuses to play around the late people, then by all means dock them if you start after 8pm. You have the right to do it! It is unfair to you and your team to have to wait if you are there on time and ready to go!

Just my two cents.

Who asked for your two cents j/k.those are viable points

I do not think that mandating a start time earlier than 7:30 would be productive, it would only lead to more matches starting "late". Working hours and commuting times can making getting to a match by 7:30 tough as it is. My team does try to be on time, and I think overall there is more emphasis in Central on starting closer to 7:30 than 8:00. Working around the match line-up is a more productive way to address the issue of starting on time. As others have said in this column start with the crickets, or the second 601, if necessary to get the match started on time.

I haven't been out of a bar after a match is over any earlier than 11:15.Late teams,players,slow play.It never is different,3-31/2 hours to play.Maybe we should move the start time to 7:00???Not complaining,that's just how it is.

To those who are out late on dart night. Time a match from when the first 601 actually starts until you end the night. Now, apply that time to when you should start at 7:30 and see what time you would get out if you started at 7:30pm. Then let us know all those numbers. It is more helpful to see how long the matches really are taking and when you would get out if starting on time, and the league could see where time could be gained to alleviate your problems.

It is easy to say the matches should start at 7:00pm and since it seems those who wind up playing late have issues with people coming on time, I think they would have more issues if the time was 7:00pm.

Another experiment is to see how much time is wasted if you don't adhere to the 3 practice rounds rule, or by players suddenly going to the bathroom just as their game is about to start, or going to get a beer just as their game is about to start, or by throwing practice darts when they busted on their first dart, etc etc .... basically count up all the funny business and see how much time is wasted there.

Hope this helps you to identify where your time is being wasted and giving you an idea of where to recover it from. I don't think starting earlier will give you the intended results you desire.